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2024 Advice: Are you an eldest child / first born and a parent?
Prior Advice: The Big Sister Perspective
2024 Advice: Are you an eldest child / first born and a parent?
Hi PSP folks,
If you are the eldest child in your family, can you please share some of your experience and wisdom with me?
Both my husband and I are the babies of our families. We have three daughters, aged 6, 3, and an infant. I try to be conscious about not favoring the 3 yo in disputes between the two eldest, but inevitably the 6 yo hears a lot of “ she’s only three, you should know better”, that sort of thing. It doesn’t help that my three-year-old is often ungovernable and has a nuclear temper when she doesn’t get her way.
Lately my six-year-old has been coming to me very upset, complaining about how unfair it feels. She’s told me a few times sometimes it feels like she really hates her sister. When she’s telling me this stuff, she’s really distressed. I tell her that having feelings of anger and hate towards people you love is healthy and normal. And that if she feels down deep below those feelings, she can feel the love that she also has for her sister. She said that that’s true. (for context, they get along wonderfully and play together all day long. They are actually very quick to resolve ruptures. They even sleep in the same bed every night, even though they have separate beds, because they don’t want to be apart. The three-year-old asks where the six-year-old is all day when she is at school, & anytime I give the three year-old anything she always asked for another one for her sister. So I’m not worried about their connection, I’m worried more about the 6yos individual experience of being the oldest child and how she feels parented).
I’m hoping to use the wisdom of this group. If you were the oldest child in your family, what did your parents do that really helped you feel seen and heard? Also, what did your parents do that you wished they hadn’t done? Just wanting to make sure my own experience as the baby isn’t getting in the way of me supporting my oldest child the best that I can.
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I'm the oldest of three (although my kid is an only) - my brothers were 17 months younger and almost 8 years younger - and what I remember helping most was my mother pointing out, quite early on, that my middle brother found it frustrating to be less able and less capable of doing things independently than I was, and that made him act out (and made my parents give him more attention and cut him a bit more slack). I vividly remembered, and still do, the sense I had as a small child of being unable to do things for myself and having people dictate my actions, so that resonated, and being my mother's "helper" in this way also gave me a quiet feeling of superiority that was probably pretty annoying but gave me a bit more patience with my brothers.
To underline a point <others> made, I'd recommend explicitly roping in your 6yo to help, entertain, and divert the 3yo when needed - I assume she does so already, but it won't hurt to confess that sometimes you could use some help, and giving the 6yo a "job" will underline how you think of her as the more responsible/capable one, which is always gratifying. That also will help her develop empathy and consider other people's points of view, which is important.
And like others, my mother also sometimes quoted "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (which is Karl Marx) and that stuck.
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Eldest of 3 here. My younger siblings are twins, one of whom has special needs.
My parents were conscious of overburdening me with being mommy’s helper, and later of my sister and I being tethered by our brother’s disability, but the result was that I was left to my own devices a lot. There wasn’t a lot of quality time with parents, and very little tolerance for bad/unruly behavior. I’m close to my parents and siblings now, but often felt growing up like an outsider in my own family, and believe this is partly why I moved so far away (from UK to US) at age 18 never to return.
We’ve just had our second daughter and, as others have suggested, my goal is to give her every opportunity to help/participate, while also carving out little windows of quality time for just her and me to be together. I do her bedtime, for instance, and we do art projects in the morning while the baby is asleep. My mother took just me to ice skating classes once a week, and I really cherish those memories.
Good luck!!!
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I am the oldest and have a six and three year old who get along well--except of course when they don't and that includes the six year old crying, "That's not fair!" and "Why does HE get all of the attention," and general just appalling behavior between the two on the regular. More than once I have internally gone into panic mode after an interaction and by the time i am able to get across the room to resolve they problem they are laughing.
Siblings Without Rivalry by Elaine Mazlish and Adele Faber is absolutely excellent. It was easy to listen to on audiobook when I was dropping off my kids at school. It really helped normalize the tension in sibling relationships relationships and I felt like it gave me a lot tools to address sibling conflict. Some were really simple things like, avoid saying "we can't go to the park because the baby is sleeping," and instead saying "It's naptime we can't go to the park. " So it's not blaming the sibling. Or be a sports caster not a referee. But then there were broader frameworks as to how to approach conflict and give kid space from each other and the idea that you can't force siblings to be friends, but you can help them to build skills to develop with others in the world. There are more ungovernable 3 year olds in adult bodies than their should be, and your oldest will be well equipped thanks to her status as oldest child.
I also want to validate that six has been a hard age for us. It feels like six year olds are older and should know better (those exact words have been spoken in our home), but really are still going to mess it up a lot of the time especially when they are tired/hungry/have had a bad day. And it's hard not to completely lose it when say--your six year old dumps a bucket of water out of the bathtub because she is mad at you where when the three year old does it--well I expect that more. But the more I talk with my friends with six year olds it seems par for the course.
Good luck, but really do read or listen to that book.
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I'm the oldest of 3 (although just have 1 kid). I think people have given good advice, but I just want to say, don't ask your older child to be more mature than she really is or too much of a mother's helper, etc. She's only 6. Really - she's still a baby and still has very little kid needs. As someone who is parenting only one kid, I think that having just one without a younger child to compare her to makes me realize how little she still is even at 9!
To your daughter's point about fairness, frankly, it *is* unfair when the squeaky wheel gets their way because they make everyone else's lives harder when they don't. And it can feel very unfair when an older child is basically told that they should just deal with the unfairness because the other person is younger. I would try to think about specific things that she's complained about, and see if there is a way to carve out time/attention for what she wanted in that instance. And also see if there are ways to make time just for her, without the younger two, to show her the perks of being the older kid.
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I'm the oldest of 2 with a brother 7 years younger than me. For context, my mom was the youngest of 2, my dad the oldest of 3.
When I was a kid, I wished my mom would encourage my brother & I to just play together, or, when we were a little older, just hang out together, without me being "in charge." So we could have times where we were simply friends that were different ages instead of me being responsible for him.
I also really wished as a kid was that if I was in charge, there was a way for my brother to have consequences for when he did something wrong (like biting, hitting, purposefully destroying something after being told stop/no/please don't do that) when I was watching him. Not something to worry about for now, since obviously you wouldn't have a 6 year old responsible for watching her siblings. But if you do get to a point where an older sibling is watching younger siblings, thinking in advance about how to handle if someone acts out when you aren't there. And then making sure that the kid in charge has some kind of action to take if someone misbehaves whether it's something she does directly or getting you/a grown-up, calling/texting you/their dad, etc.
My little brother was allergic to corn syrup which is in a surprisingly large number of things. So neither of us could have anything with corn syrup. I remember thinking that wasn't fair, that I couldn't have all the things just because my brother was allergic. What I wished would have happened: if my mom didn't want me to have soda, she just said "no, you can't have regular soda because it has too much sugar" (or whatever her actual reason was) instead of "You can't have it because your brother can't." Or, if she was ok, but worried about my brother throwing a tantrum, then giving it to me & offering him 2 choices for what he could have instead. So if one child is allergic, think about what to do if all your children want something that one child can't have.
One of the other parents said something about treating the children individually instead of reasoning always/frequently being about the other child(ren). I like that. Only having one child of my own, not sure how easy/hard that would be to put into practice, but I like the concept.
My mom would have special "mother/daughter" days and "mother/son" days. These were awesome!!! She'd have long deep conversations with me as I grew older and helped me with my homework. Both were really great. Really listening to me and asking me follow up questions about my day to show she was listening and cared. Being able to give each child your undivided attention, at least sometimes, (because obviously it can't be all the time or everyone would go crazy and nothing would get done), can really help make a child feel seen/heard. Talking to my brother and I like grown-ups also helped a lot.
Hope this is at least somewhat helpful.
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I'm also the oldest of three (I have two younger brothers), and my wife (also the eldest in her family) and I have one child. I fondly remember the times when around ages 3-5, my dad would take me out on Saturday mornings while my mom stayed home with my two brothers. It helped me feel like I was still "special" after my brothers were born, so I would suggest having one-on-one time with your eldest child as much as possible. I strongly remember the feelings of jealousy and anger after my first brother was born, and I feel like my parents didn't give me the tools to address it. I applaud you for giving your daughter the space to express her feelings and the validation that what she is feeling is normal.
As others have said, I would steer clear of saying things like "you're older, you know better". Even as an adult, I feel like this is still the underlying attitude toward me in my family, whether conscious or not. My parents (and my brothers) expect and assume that I will plan anything related to family matters, right down to simple things like organizing the day when they visit us in NYC even though my middle brother lives here, too. I think this has also done a disservice to my middle brother since he wasn't expected to uphold the same responsibilities that I was and am. My parents often confided and continue to confide in me about my brothers' issues, but I am quite certain they don't speak to my brothers about me. Granted, my situation is a little different since my youngest brother has learning disabilities, but even so I've always felt like the one who holds all the responsibility while my middle brother holds none. In any case, although I am not an expert by any means, just based on my personal experience I would sum it up by reiterating the importance of validating and inviting your eldest daughter to share her feelings about being the older sister, not putting undue pressure or responsibility on her such that she feels obligated to take on that role down the line, and as much as possible, spending one-on-one time with her when you have the chance.
All the best.
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It's so wonderful you're reaching out about this. Here are some things you can consider as you navigate your daughters' relationships to each other and to you (as the eldest daughter of an eldest daughter, currently parenting an eldest daughter.)
A few thoughts on sibling dynamics in general:
- "Not until the good comes out can the bad go in" -- this is a saying from Adele Faber ("how to speak to kids will listen..") What this basically means is that our kids often tell us things about their sibling, and the most we respect it and let the feeling fully come out, the quicker that feeling goes away and the more happy feelings they can garner toward each other. You say you're accepting this which is great! And, you might want to actually give her some space to ask her about it, without her coming to you first.
- "To each according to his need" and also "equal is less". -- this principle basically means that when we try to tell kids why they should do something/get something/behave in some way based on their sibling, we are always, always going to lose. For example, saying "you just got a lollipop yesterday! That's why she's getting two now" or "she's older than you! that's why she gets more screentime" -- this might seem like we're explaining why something is happening or creating empathy, but truly what we're doing is teaching our kids to go outside of themselves-- to look at what others are getting. So, instead we might say something like "Did you want more food?" (instead of explaning about the sibling. Keep it focused on what's actually happening with the one kid. Keep it focused on the need). When I work with parents, we work to dramatically decrease the number of times we "justify" something based on another sibling. This applies also to "you're older, you should understand." We actually work to get rid of the notion that things should be fair-- and just focus on what each kid needs in a moment.
- When kids are fighting, there are systems to work to get them to problem solve together. Instead of you mediating fights, you may want to give them some scripts to start to mediate for themselves, and step out unless someone is going to get irreparably hurt (and even then, you'd separate them but then let them work it out after). With the families i work with, this is the hardest part, but when it can happen it's truly truly transformational within a family.
A few thoughts on being the oldest:
-- I was the oldest and was maybe "parentified" a bit (and still am) but I honestly love my role as being the oldest and caring for my little sisters. Part of this is because I saw my big responsibility as helping my sisters but also felt very proud of this responsibility. I still work to take care of my sisters. Part of this is because we as a family always had a big big focus on caring for each ohter, it wasn't just one way. My mom also asked how my sisters can care for me.
- I wish I didn't feel so, so much responsibility just because I'm a few years older than these other grown women :) I heard all the time "you're older, control yourself more" and it felt really unfair that just because I had an extra two or three or eight years I needed to act differently. This is what I try to undo in my work with families, around getting rid of that comparison "because you're this, you need to do that" and instead just making sure that kids have the problem-solving tools they need.
So, these are a few thoughts! I recently did a workshop on sibling dynamics, if you (or anyone else on here) want to email me for it I'd be happy to send it to you!
Wishing you lots of clarity. You're clearly doing great even just diving into these topics and getting curious.
Warmly.
Prior Threads: The Big Sister Perspective
As a PSP member writes:
"One of the best pieces of advice someone gave me when I had my second daughter was "keep your birth order biases in check. It's easy to side with the kid who is the same birth order as you but you need to be aware of theb whole story and not play to your experiences." I'm a little sister and have a big sister less than 2 years older than me (and 3 brothers older than us, but that's irrelevant at this point).
I've been trying to keep things in check for the last 5 or so years with my two daughters but since I don't know the "Big Sister" perspective it's getting harder and harder for me NOT to side with my birth order sidekick (my younger daughter). So I see my older daughter leading ('bossing") my younger daughter's play behavior and it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. My older daughter has been super great at allowing my younger daughter to join in her playdates, but there are more and more comments like "X and Samantha aren't letting me play with them." My younger daughter can hold her own for the most part, but I can see the tension growing as they get older.
Are there any big sisters out there who can help me gain BIG SISTER perspective? Any tricks of the trade other than "one person gets to cut the piece of gum in half and the other chooses first"? Are there any sibling books that give advice on how to create an atmosphere where sisters stay friends and not rivals? Any help from younger/older/middle/only children is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
(#5 on the sibling food chain)"
PSP member replies:
"Siblings Without Rivalry is a good place to look. It's by the same authors as How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk... I've read it many times and there's always some kernel that's helpful. Also, I can tell you as an older sister that it's important to remember that older sisters do need their own space, own friends sometimes. And it's difficult when younger ones seem to get more accommodations, attention, and more love for being cute and more dependent... As an older sib it's hard not to read even developmentally appropriate differences in parenting as meaning that the younger is favored. Of course, the fact that you're thinking about all of this is the most important step to making it better!"
"I'm also a big sister, by 2.5 years. There were a few things my mom did that definitely helped in terms of playdates - one was to schedule as many "double-dates" as she could, where we each had a friemd over at the same time. It helped because neither one was in the other's space (I will say that when my sister had a playdate and I didn't, I had no interest in playing with them, but the same could not be said for the times I had a playdate and my sister was dateless!). My mother and father also made sure to do things with us separately as well as together, without making a big deal out of it. My sister and I shared a room for a number of years, which had both advantages and disadvantages, but some of my fondest memories were of talking with her in the bunk beds after lights out. We were also given separate rooms when I was 8 or 9, which was a good time to move us apart. I was definitely bossy towards my sister, and she was very good at playing the victim, but my parents didn't fool around with much "she said she said" and often punished us both equally if we were fighting, which I actually think was pretty fair since often we were both being jerks in different ways. My mother's preferred form of punishment was to have us sit opposite to each other for 10 minutes without talking or moving. By the time our "punishment" was over we were often making silly faces at each other and had forgotten what we were mad about in the first place.
I would like to provide some reassurance for those parents with daughters who are experiencing tension. My sister and I fought like cats and dogs throughout a lot of our childhood and teenage years - she could (and did) push my buttons like nobody else. It was impossible for us to be friends at times (remember, you get to choose your friends but you can't choose your family). We were sometimes absolutely cruel to each other and a few of our fights were pretty legendary. But after she went to college we both calmed down, and now I can say without reservation that she is my best friend. We talk to each other at least every other day, and we share a lot together. We are each other's sounding board, advice-giver, and overall rock (this was vital when our father died a couple of years ago). I think that sister relationships have the possibility of being extremely intense, especially if one sibling is more independent and the other is more clingy (I was a prickly pear, but my sister would have velcroed herself to me if she could have). This intensity can cause parents to fear their daughters will never get along, and while that may sometimes happen, in my experience with my sister the fighting and rivalry does mellow over time and can develop into the kind of closeness that is supportive and healthy. And those horrible fights that we had when we were younger are now fodder for the kind of remembrances that leave us both gasping for air from laughing so hard. So there's that, too!"
"I'd strongly recommend the book "Siblings without Rivalry" by Faber and Mazlish. It is really on target and has lots of specific suggestions on how to deal with very common issues. It's made a big difference in our house!"
"After reading some of those replies I took away some perspective, but my situation is slightly different. I am an only child who always considered myself having had siblings through my cousins who I spent an exceptional amount of time with in long durations, and for most of my childhood. Now that I'm the parent of a 5 year old and a 2 1/2 year old I realize I'm in unchartered territory. Aside from the generalization of just having a 2 year old brings, I have to interject to say that my 2 1/2 year old is very mature. She's very verbal, and has been speaking in full sentences since 18 months. She has a more extroverted personality, and at times seems more fearless than her brother. She's also very head strong by nature. My son is a pretty carefree guy who just seems to enjoy life, almost having too much energy for me. He's also more attached to mommy and daddy emotionally whereas, my daughter loves us, but it's because we fulfill her needs :-) Because my son is so carefree it's sometimes hard to communicate with him because he's not into explanations, just what he wants and what he thinks. My daughter is a little tornado. I've never seen such self confidence in a young child, she is very aware of what she wants. With that being said I've got a mosh pot of stuff going on here. The fighting can be triggered by various things. I'm a pretty calm easy going person which means I just want peace and quiet. Sometimes my son has to be the heavy because I just want quiet. I at other times find myself yelling which I don't like because I'm not a yeller by nature. I know I'm being vague, but there's not one particular problem in terms of behavior that I'm dealing with. I'm mostly unsure of what is typical. I'm not sure what to make a big deal out of and what not to. I'm not sure when to interject and when to let them work it out, or whether they're even to young for that now. What I'm asking from you is advice on how to deal with personality differences between not just the children themselves, but with myself in the mix. I would also like any advice, or tips when it comes to validating both children and their individual personalities especially when it comes to dealing with conflict. Any perspective on older brother younger sister dynamics; dealing with a head strong personality, especially in girls; or anything you can offer from your own experience that left an impression on you regarding your sibling relationship and that with your parent. I so want to do the right thing for both of them."
"I'm a big sister to four younger siblings, two of them girls, and my only older sibling is very close to me in age, so I have the opposite natural bias. I think my older daughter and her friends have always been much more inclusive of my younger one than I and my friends ever were and I think that's great. But one thing I'm really, really clear on is that the big one gets to play with her friends without the little one for some of the time. So, when K. was your S.'s age and she had a friend over for a play date or sleep over, they played some of the time with Z. but they also had designated "big kid time" and I would play with Z. or watch a movie with her or something. And if she complained - which she sometimes did - I told her that that's the way it is: big kids get time to do Big Kid Stuff together. I think kids get used to that if it's framed as a general rule (or perhaps Law of the Universe :-)) as opposed to specifically excluding her. I also often did play dates or sleepovers for both girls at the same time, or had both bring friends along to outings (zoo, theatre, etc).
By late single digit/early teen years they were completely comfortable with the idea that your siblings' friends spend some time with you and some time on their own with the friend. I think it's a good model for family life in general - if I have friends over, they pay attention to my kids but they don't spend the whole time playing with them, yk? And I expect the same from my older/grown kids and their friends - they'll interact with me over dinner, for example, but they're not there just to see me.
As to the leading/bossing in play - I think there's actually a lot that both big and little kid get out of that. Little one learns games and rhymes and jump rope techniques that her age peers don't know yet, and it makes the playing-with-the-little-sister more palatable to the older one. That said, it can get out of hand and you're right to watch for that. It's good for all kids, I think, to have a turn being the big one and a turn being the little one. If your nuclear family only provides one position, look for other ways to get the other ones - cousins, family friends, etc. Zara, for example, loves hanging out with my sister and her family, because they have an almost-five-year-old to whom she has the near-deity position of being Great Big Kid Who Can Do Almost Anything."
"I am in X's position as well and I feel like all I do anymore is set limits with the oldest for harrassing/bossing/manipulating her younger sister (who doesn't seem to mind the treatment nearly as much as I do!). So I am looking forward to hearing more solutions. Here are a few things that have helped us: My older kids are so close together (16mos) that I realized that I just lump them together as a kid unit and do activities that they both can do, which holds the oldest back from activities that she is ready for but her younger sister is not. Since this realization (and a lot of jealousy on the oldest child's part, and requests for more solo attention), I have decided to give the older one some big kid privileges, like staying up a bit later, and going to special shows or events (often with one of her big kid friends). I just explain that you have to be at least 5 to attend, which my younger daughter has accepted (we also try to do special activities with her alone as well). We also went on a special mommy-daughter weekend for her 5th bday (which all three of them will get upon turning 5). So instead of just extra responsibilities and less attention (the youngest is 21 mos and therefore sucks up a LOT of attention), my oldest is getting to experience extra privileges as well. I think the previous poster's idea of shared time with friends and solo time with friends is also good; that was the rule in our home growing up and it was usually successful. In the past, my husband has also taken them to work (one at a time) and they have really enjoyed that."
"I'm a big sister. My little sister is three and a half years younger, and I now have two daughters (ages 5.5 and 14 months). It's funny that you raise this issue because I'm realizing that I totally view my daughters' relationship through the big sister lens. When we were children, I hated it when my kid sister "tagged along" and resented the idea that, just because I was older, I was somehow responsible for providing free babysitting for her. I wanted to play alone with my friends or do my own thing and not be weighed down. (I'm sure this was all colored by the fact that my parents were divorced and often absent, and I definitely felt overburdened -- not to over-psychoanalyze myself, but to put it in some perspective).
Nowadays, I bend over backwards to respect my older daughter's space and keep the younger one out of her room and away from her toys or art supplies. I also never ask her to keep an eye on her little sister (she's still a little too young for that anyway, but I wouldn't be inclined to "burden" her with babysitting or substitute parenting). I hadn't really given much thought to my younger daughter's feelings of exclusion (or, potential feelings -- at 14 onths, I don't think she has much of an awareness of this yet), although I do step in to protect her if the older one is being bossy or overbearing."
"I agree that X has raised very interesting issues -- both the general point that we should try not to overreact to our kids' behavior based on our own issues, and the specific birth-order issue! I also agree with "both sides of the coin" which have been expressed by the first three posters here. On one hand, each kid has the right to some space, and the older kid should not always HAVE to hang out with the younger sister. If she has some special time with her own friends, and is allowed to have some "big girl" privileges, she may not resent the younger one as much. On the other hand, you're right to discourage excessive bossiness, put-downs or meanness.
Oddly enough, I can't really speak specifically to the typical "older sibling"view, even though I'm 1 year older than my sister! She was always much more athletic/popular/gregarious than I was, with plenty of friends, so she did not need to glom onto my friendships. She basically had no interest in hanging out with me and my fellow oddball/intellectual/nerdy friends!
Just from viewing my own kids (twin boys), I can see that it's SO important to them to reach new milestones and skills. It's their major life-driving force and inspiration, to get OLDER and BETTER at everything. Frankly, they have very little interest in hanging out with little kids who haven't read some of the "big kid" the books they've read, who can't swim in the waves with them, who can't ride bikes with them, who speak slowly (relative to them and their same-age friends) and don't get their "big kid" jokes, etc. I know that sounds selfish and superior, but sometimes they're like wild horses who need to run, and can't stand being put back in the barn. (I don't know, maybe it's more common with boys? Or maybe my kids are just super-obnoxious that way??) Hanging out with younger kids just doesn't provide the same excitement/challenge/fun as forging ahead to the next milestone for their age....
So what's my point? I guess that some older kids may feel genuine boredom with younger kids. Of course, they still have to learn to be civil and nice to younger kids, and there's no excuse for them to be mean! But it might help lessen tension if we acknowledge some older kids' desire not to feel constantly "stuck" playing at the younger kids' level. They may have some legitimate need to do their own thing at times, without the younger kid slowing them down."
"I think you've probably already heard this from the other big sisters chiming in, but as a big sister myself, as soon as I hit this line "My older daughter has been super great at allowing my younger daughter to join in her playdates..." my feathers ruffled a bit. If my memories of my childhood (my little sister is three years younger) are correct: I spent a LOT of time playing with and keeping an eye on my little sister around the house. But when my friends came over? I'm sorry, but that was MY time. It sounds harsh, but that was how I felt. And when asked to put myself back there just now, I felt that way again!
Negotiating sibling issues is actually one of the reasons I'm on the fence about having another child, so it's good to hear about the stuff that will come up."
