===============================
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Found: boy's hat
Y,
Its emails like yours that drive me up the wall! Is it that you have so much time on your hands that you can take the time to make such a comment. The original poster was just trying to do something nice and return a lost item to someone. If it was my hat I wouldt care if she posted it as a dogs hat found Id just be happy to get it back.
Since it was obviously not your "boys" hat then there really was no reason for you to write other that to make sure that everyone complies to your PC view of life.
What does the fact that you felt the need to post this comment say about you?
Z
===============================
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:44:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Found: boy's hat
Y,
yes, my apologies
X
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:34:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
It's emails which try to suppress all matter of interesting dialogue
which are my pet peeve.
I appreciated Y's email very much and I am glad she wrote it. I
imagine it has nothing to do with some rigid standard of "PC" which
led her to post her response.
I know that many people like to think they are beyond these issues and
that sexism doesn't apply to them, but truthfully it is alive and
well. "Rambuctious" girls are still "punished" for the same actions
which for "active" boys are not. Boys are still noted more for their
math skills, even when there are girls in the same class who are
equally skilled. I've witnessed it first hand. The emphasis on how a
girl should look and dress and act is much stronger than it was when I
was a kid, and frankly it's very oppressive to a girl who doesn't fit
or want to fit "the mold."
Y's post could have led to an interesting discussion about sexism,
marketing, gender neutral child-rearing (does it work?), education-
how can we encourage and develop styles of playing and games which
enhance girls skills and love of math and science? Why is it that
society is suddenly obsessing about how boys are falling behind in
reading? Are they really and is it a function of sexism that everyone
cares so much about the sucess of boys when girls have been shut out
of math and sciences for decades? Doesn't it rebalance in middle
school and high school when boys pick up speed and girls start dumbing
down so that they can be cute for the boys? And what about puberty
itself, how does that effect academic success?
I could go on and I hope I have provoked someone out there into a more
interesting conversation than what to buy and where to buy it.
A
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:51:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
I used the term 'boy's hat' as a department store indicator to help parents identify whether it might belong to them...Is every context saturated by gender politics - even a lost hat?
Why do we all jump to conclusions about each other's motives? Recently, I bought my three yeat old nephew pink Dora flip flops because he loved them. Did I tell him I was buying him girl shoes? No. My son nurses his baby doll every night.
I agree the participants I agree the participants of great discussion are pioneers of new
thinking. My eyes have been opened here. And that is good, and a start...
X
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:26:52 EST
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
I can tell you this, my nephews (2-8) would not wear a girl's hat, and they
would know exactly how to discern a boy's hat from a girl's hat. Perhaps no
buttons would've been pressed had the lost hat been described as a "boy's-style" hat? Yeesh.
B
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:40:27 -0500
Subject: a little humor re: Found: boy's hat
X:
I'm sorry but, HOW DO YOU KNOW it's for an older child? What does this
say about younger children who happen to have large heads? Is something
wrong with them??
OK, I'll shut up now and crawl back into my hole. :0)
F
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:54:27 -0500
Subject: Re: a little humor re: Found: boy's hat
LOL. And along those lines, how do really know this is a "hat"? Doesn't
this just speak to our conventional understanding of what a "hat" really is?
I'm shutting up now too. But thanks for the laughs.
C
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:32:21 -0000
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
X,
I think this group owes you an apology. I mean, really people.
The posting was about a hat. Perhaps she used words that could've
possibly in some context been taken to mean something more. However,
do you really think she was trying to do anything except return a hat
to its rightful owner? My goodness she even apologized in her posting
for not posting about finding the hat right away.
It's true what they say.... No good deed goes unpunished.
-D
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:04:00 -0800
Subject: re: lost boy's hat and language
I feel that I need to defend X, even though I don't know her. I
think she made an innocent comment/observation about the style of a hat
which did not deserve the kind of public scolding she received. An
interesting conversation about sexism would be very interesting, but
not at the expense of another member.
Thanks, X, for your post and kindly trying to find the hat's owner.
Thanks,
H
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:33:52 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: Found: boy's hat
X,
I am glad that you understood that I was simply pointing out that I found
your language hurtful. I do not fault you for your post: you did not know --
until I replied -- which is why I did so! Thank YOU for understanding.
From the start, my parents encouraged me and my sister to do whatever we
wanted (despite, and even in spite of, gender stereotypes). I chose Wall
Street computer systems, and she became a master carpenter and draftsperson.
Both are traditionally men's jobs in male-dominated industries. Even at this
point in our country's history, both continue to be difficult paths for a
woman to choose.
....I've been humming Peggy Seager's "I'm gonna be an engineer" all day.
http://lionslair.com/Lyrics/I'm_Gonna_be_an_Engineer.html
These days, I spend a lot of my time around kids. To underscore why I was
compelled to point out the impact of a subtle and innocent reference to a
hat, here are some statements that I've had to reply to this week:
from a 2nd grader: "I can't be President, I'm a girl"
(can't she?)
from a 5th grader: "MS51 is where the smart kids go."
(and those who don't go there aren't smart?)
from a kindergarten kid:
"Are you a man?" "No" "...but you have short hair"
(this one is interesting, because there are so many women with short hair in
our community, and I don't know any man who would wear his hair as I do!
This kid is clearly struggling to make sense of a newly-learned stereotype)
They learn these labels and stereotypes from the everyday language used in
our community. Yes, even in an innocent post about a lost hat.
Y
===============================
Date: Mar 21 2006 - 8:03pm
To: Y
Re: [ParkSlopeParents] Found: boy's hat
Y,
I can't believe the amount of negative response your post has
generated. You really touched a nerve. I'm really astonished by how
constricted people are in their thinking....
A
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:50:27 -0500
Subject: Re: A’s post on "the hat"
A:
I have a difficult time taking the hat post wording this seriously, but
I think it's unfair to suggest that our girls are the only ones that
have to confront issues of sexism.
Have you ever tried walking through the world with a three year old boy
who is proudly carrying a pink poodle under his arm? If not, try it
some time. I have with my friend's son. The response is astonishing.
This world is not only a challenge for GIRLS who don't fit the mould.
--S,
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:56:11 -0500
Subject: Re: S's post on" the hat" and sexism
you know S,
etiquette would have you direct this to me instead of to the entire
list. I'm not sure why you have decided to attack me personally. I
wasn't attacking you or anyone else. I was simply supporting the idea
that someone might respond to a post on a list serv even if it was
tangential to the initial posting. I respected that a post elicited an
unintended, yet interesting response from someone and that instead of
suppressing her response, she posted! It wasn't something I had given
much thought to actually (I hadn't even noticed the initial post), so
thank you Y. Your point was valid. So was yours S- I have
walked around with boys who don't fit the masculine mold, and I agree
it's tough for them too. I'm not at all astonished that a boy carring
a pink poodle would be the receipient of unwanted attention. I don't
think I ever suggested that "our girls are the only ones that have to
confront issues of sexism" though I did point out a historical
discrepency in education which I believe still persists.
It's a challenge to raise children to be comfortable in their own
skin, and as a parent, I see it as the most fundamentally important
aspect of childrearing. I support all interesting conversation to that
end because frankly, it's easier for some people to be comfortable
with who they are than it is for others.
A
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Re: Found: boy's hat
Sure, "Y's post could have led to an interesting discussion about sexism, marketing, gender neutral child-rearing (does it work?), education- how can we encourage and develop styles of playing and games which enhance girls skills and love of math and science?
Why is it that society is suddenly obsessing about how boys are falling behind in reading? Are they really and is it a function of sexism that everyone cares so much about the sucess of boys when girls have been shut out of math and sciences for decades?
Doesn't it rebalance in middle school and high school when boys pick up speed and girls start dumbing down so that they can be cute for the boys? And what about puberty itself, how does that effect academic success?"
But X simply wanted to return a hat to someone who lost it. If you want to begin a dialog about all those things then do so. Don't jump down X's throat for trying to do someone a favor.
T
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Re: Found: boy's hat
IS THIS SOME KIND OF JOKE?
K
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:18:55 -0800 (PST)
From: K2
Subject: Boys' hats
Let's assume that civilization continues in some form
recognizable to us for the next 200 years and the hat
that X finds is discovered in an archaeological
dig. It is then turned over to a fashion historian who
must classify it for his dissertation. How would he do
so? Boy's hat? Child's hat, frequently worn by boys?
Suppose a competing university theorized it was a
gender neutral hat, but the archaeologist then turned
up a Target catalog with an extensive photo spread of
many boys wearing many similar hats. But another dig
uncovers a photo album with a girl wearing said hat.
My point is, that when X said it was a boy's hat,
I'm pretty sure that if you have ever bought clothes
for a boy or a girl, or hung out at a playground, you
knew what she meant. If you want to discuss what makes
boys' clothes, boys' clothes then why not pose it as a
question, rather than a jibe at someone communicating
precisely and effectively in an attempt to be helpful?
I'm curious. What would you all do if your seven year
old boy wanted to wear a pink dress with a satin sash
and patent leather mary janes to school? (This is a
hypothetical question, just in case you're curious.)
K
===============================
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:33:17 -0500
Subject: Re:Boys' hats
K,
Hilarious! Just when the issue was getting really tiresome (albeit an interesting topic) I stumbled upon your post. Thanks for the laugh and introducing a bit of levity to the situation.
- E
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:33:33 -0000
Subject: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
This medium is one such that I can think before writing something, which does not
happen as much in every day conversation. How many times have I thought to myself
when in a conversation or a quick conversational happening in the street, "boy I wish I
would have said this or asked that". Also at times in regular face-to-face conversation
we/I are to shy or are too concerned about what others think if I say/ask the wrong thing
or if I might think the other person thinks that I over stepped a boundary which can be a
drag intellectually especially because some people are more open then others. So mostly
I/we will use the ethic of the strictest boundaries that can stifle interesting and juicy
conversation essentially being more concerned about etiquette then the free interchange
of ideas and questions. Well the great thing about Internet writing is that I get to think
before writing, can plan it out and even edit and spell check. How many times have the
older generation said: in our day we used to write letters now with telephone service being so cheap and easy everyone has lost the art of communicating through writing. Well now we have something in between, something that does not have to be planned out as well as writing through snail mail but also can be more thought out and planed then face-to-face conversation. Boy do I wish when in High School this kind of communication was popular because I would have been much better at writing. In fact when this kind of communication became popular and I was using it a lot, I completely attribute to it why I did so much better in writing when going to college the second time around. In High School and my first time in college any writing I did was a complete failure.
-SH
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:33:35 -0500
Subject: X's post about the boy's hat
i can't help but chime in here. i wrote to X privately as i felt she had been treated quite badly. but in all honesty, i think this is an internet age issue. would Y have reacted in the same way had she been face to face with X? had X stopped Y in the park and said "excuse me, does this boy's hat belong to you by any chance? i just found it on this corner," would Y have allowed herself to act offended and outraged by X's practical assumption that this was a boy's hat?
i feel that there are inherent problems with internet use in the way that people react to each other's words. i won't try to dissect what it is about the internet thatcreates these situation, but maybe there are internet experts out there that can shed some light on this issue. in general i feel that it is important to consider whether you would say what you type to the person if they were in front of you - human to human. or does this medium allow us to lose inhibitions, boundaries and a fundamental respect for each other? and to assume the worst about the other.
best,
-N
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:02:36 -0000
Subject: my post to A
A,
I took seriously your words "Y's post could have led to an
interesting discussion about sexism," etc. and that is why my response
to you was sent to the entire list. I thought you wanted to discuss
the such issues with the group.
I apologize if it came off as a personal attack. It was not my intent.
It's very hard to decipher things on-line. I found Y's initial
response to H's post (which she sent to the entire group and which you
defended) to be far more confrontational than what I wrote to you.
Personal interpretation...
S
===============================
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:53:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Re: Found: boy's hat and bad hospital experiences
Thanks D,
That saying was going around and around in my head, and I couldn't remember past "No good deed goes ............". It was a nice, neighborly thing to do, and was just worded in a way some disagreed with. It's one of the big problems using e-mail, which doesn't give opportunity to discuss, or rather, explain what you meant after hitting "send". It was a good deed, and I hope the hat found it's owner's head.
EN
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:52:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
I think you hit the nail on the head with this observation.
A
On 3/21/06, S wrote:
> This medium is one such that I can think before writing something, which does not
> happen as much in every day conversation. How many times have I thought to myself
> when in a conversation or a quick conversational happening in the street, "boy I wish I
> would have said this or asked that". Also at times in regular face-to-face conversation
> we/I are to shy or are too concerned about what others think if I say/ask the wrong thing
> or if I might think the other person thinks that I over stepped a boundary which can be a
> drag intellectually especially because some people are more open then others. So mostly
> I/we will use the ethic of the strictest boundaries that can stifle interesting and juicy
> conversation essentially being more concerned about etiquette then the free interchange
> of ideas and questions.
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:04:07 -0500
Subject: Re: my post to A
S,
I think if you hadn't put my name in the subject line, I wouldn't have
seen it as an attack. But maybe I was defensive, because there was so
much negative response to Y's post and even if she went about it in
the wrong way, it was still a valid observation. I have found in life,
that when the subject matter is difficult- for example, racism or
sexism, there is never really a good time and there is always someone
who wants to stifle the conversation by telling them that the way they
went about initiating the conversation was inappropriate.
But back to your topic about boys and pink poodles-
It takes alot of guts to deal with it and I think it's really hard.
How did you respond to the attention?
I'll never forget how angry I felt when my upstairs neighbor's kid who
is my daughters age adamently refused to touch anything pink because
that was a girls color. And he was 4 at the time! I had to really
supress my feelings because it wasn't his fault that his father was
teaching him that kind of stuff....
A
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:43:13 -0500
Subject: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
Look -- everyone stop ! ! !
It is my hat, OK? I'm a 42 year-old man and I like wearing little boy's
and girl's hats, as long as they have little triangles on them. In fact
I'm pretty much fixated on all kinds of triangles. Gosh, what a great
shape. Three sides!
It's my pathetic little obsession, and yes I'm seeing a shrink about it.
OK? I'm sorry I dropped my little hat. I miss those triangles so.
X, can I have my hat back please and can everyone stop speculating
that I might be a little boy or little girl? I'm sad now.
BN
P.S. I'm good at math.
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:19:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: boys hat discussion
last fall i lost my work notebook. it had absolutely
no value to anyone but me (to do lists, contact names
and #'s, timesheet hours, etc.). but no one ever
turned it in. i wondered why wouldn't someone just
turn it in where they found it so the owner could come
back and get it. now i realize they probably figured
it was more trouble than it was worth.
it seems that there are too few good samaritans in the
world anymore, and now i know why. someone went out
of her way to try to do something nice (and even
apologized for not doing her deed more asap) and
instead she was publicly accused of being a sexist,
predjudiced person. have we really gotten to the
point that we have to check our politically correct
handbooks for something as benign as a lost and found
post? is every single word that comes out of our
mouths (or fingertips in this case) subject to
scrutiny and interpretation?
yes, i think the discussion of sexism in relation to
common descriptors and social stereotypes is a good
one to have. in fact it occurred late last year and
on this list and was quite an interesting one. but,
the way this one was provoked was completely
inappropriate. wouldn't it have been better, to
simply bring up in a separate post, something along
the lines "you know, X's post got me thinking
about describing brown as a boy color and how social
norms like this seem to bring up certain predjudices
one way or another." instead, X's innocent,
well-intenioned post was turned into an incorrect
accusation of her attacking girls who wear brown and
boys who wear pink. because of this, what could've
been another interesting debate on sex and stereotypes
has been lost.
C
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:47:41 EST
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
BN –
Thanks for the levity - I started to wonder if I was losing my mind here
following this post.
C
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:30:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
Oh no!
BN, you're too late. My niece fell in love with it, so she's proudly wearing it, running down seventh ave. as we speak.
and I hope with this, we are done!!!
Best to all,
X
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:43:06 -0500
Subject: Re: boys hat discussion
I know the horse has been beaten to death at this point, but I can't resist.
I have been a little bit saddened by the tone of the boys' hat discussion. I certainly agree that X was awfully kind to try and return said hat. But, I also think that Y's post might go into the "no good deed goes unpunished" category as well. As someone else pointed out, this was the very same forum where, just recently, all kinds of people wrote of the anguish they felt about their young children already acting in gender-stereotyped ways. Although I myself did not realize at first that there was anything amiss about saying "boys' hat," and I say things like that, unwittingly, all the time, I do recognize how such expressions are caused by and contribute to gender stereotyping. Without people to point this out to us, how do we change our language, and thereby change the way our children perceive gender?
Feminism frequently provokes both mockery and hostility, and I was sorry to see those very reactions in this forum. In a recent book review in the New York Times, Anthony Lewis reminisced about how conservative southerners tacked a provision about sex discrimination onto the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Why? To make the bill look so ludicrious that it would never pass. Here's a quote from his piece: "A page 1 article in the NYT in 1965 raised the question whether executives must let a 'dizzy blonde' drive a tugboat or pitch for the Mets."
Full disclosure: both of my daughters have taken their sweet time growing a full head of hair and are frequently mistaken for boys. I, their feminist mother, have tried to cajole my 3 year old into wearing barrettes many times, even though I really should know better. Gender stereotyping is powerful stuff, and while I don't like being corrected any more than anyone else, I appreciate the effort to interrupt some deep-seated assumptions. Sure, equal pay and childcare might be more important issues in the short term, but language defines our reality for the long haul.
Yours,
L
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:40:23 -0500
Subject: truce on the hat?
While some interesting and valid points have been made along the way,
the hat issue seems to be devolving into unproductive nattering. Can
we all agree to consider ourselves enlightened and move on?
Just a thought.
Thanks--
P
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:02:07 -0500
Subject: Re: boys hat discussion
I had to finally chime in. This is absolutely ridiculous!
It's amazing! I cannot believe that in this day and age this topic is actually worthy of all the discussions and explanations!
Full disclosure: My son has been mistaken as a girl plenty of times. In fact, on numerous occasions people have commented that he's "too pretty" to be a boy. But, I've never lost any sleep either way.
What is the big dea here? Am I missing something?
Just my 2 cents.
-O
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:47:08 -0000
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
This is my last word on the topic:
1. Yes, this is exactly what I would have said to X had she
approached me in the playground to inquire as to whether I had lost a
boy's hat. I never post anything that I wouldn't say to someone's
face. Again, my issue is with the commonly accepted language that she
chose to use, and not with X AT ALL.
2. I meant my post to be somewhat comical. Many people read it as
such, and some replied with similar humor. I am VERY SORRY that my
attempt at humor was more subtle than I had intended. Aw, c'mon! I am
still amused by the image of the mysteriously all-knowing mother
putting the hat to her nose and proclaiming "Ah, yes! This hat
belongs to a BOY child!"
3. Ironically, if I had omitted the comment indicating that I found
the language hurtful, it might have been received differently. I
cannot fathom why people interpret my statement that *I* am hurt by
admittedly innocent language to be an attack on someone else. AGAIN,
I am sorry that my comments were vague enough to allow for this mis-
interpretation.
4. I am dismayed at the huge number of hurtful and hateful posts that
have been posted subsequent to mine, and the many more that have been
sent to me personally. It has certainly been enlightening.
Y
Mother, small business owner, PTA member, teacher, community
volunteer, good Samaritan, good neighbor, and mortal.
===============================
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: [ParkSlopeParents] Re: Found: boy's hat
I thought it was a funny post.
SS
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:18:40 -0000
Subject: Re: Found: boy's hat
actually, there is an unmistakable boy scent, comprised of equal parts
snips and snails and puppy dog tails.
AM
===============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:37:16 -0800
Subject: the hat goes on
I remember once staying at a nice B&B with my husband in Virginia. It
was a small family run place with great food. When we were sitting
down for breakfast, the cheery young waitress asked the couple at the
next table, "Would you guys like more coffee?" The woman turned to her
and said, "Excuse me, but we are NOT guys. Speak to us correctly."
The waitress turned and ran into the kitchen, in tears. I was really
angry and said to the woman, "that was really rude." She defended
herself, saying that (1) she had a right to speak her mind and (2) that
someone had to stick up for proper English. This whole hat thing
reminds me of that incident. While it is important have interesting
and juicy conversations about topics like sexism and racism, there is a
line of civility (especially towards someone who has done something
out of the kindness of her heart). Perhaps if the comment on the board
read something along the lines of, "thank you so much for taking time
out of your day to find the owner of the hat. That was awfully nice of
you. I would just like to make a comment or start a discussion about
what makes a boy's hat or girl's hat...", I wouldn't have felt any need
to respond.
I find that personally I am more willing to listen when I don't feel
attacked or chastised.
Anyway, X's right, we should move on, although I agree that she
deserves an apology.
Thanks,
LH
===============================
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:35:29 -0000
Subject: A very funny moment
I joined this list serve a week ago because my spouse Jill, our son
Timothy (2 years old) and I are moving to Park Slope.
We are currently in Washington Heights. I think you can all imagine
that I laughed out loud when I saw a light pink winter hat with pink
beads in the playground today...
I decided to leave it there thinking the owner might come back for it
but I had a good time envisioning the email I might have sent out
about it.
MR
===============================
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:52:09 -0500
Subject: My hat
In order to make certain that inconsequential items like childbirth and
education do not interfere with the worship of my hat, I have created a
new YahooGroup.
This new group should allow the neighborhood's deconstruction of my hat
and its impact on society, as well as the history surrounding the
critique of my hat and the social consequences of that history, to be
debated without comment from naysayers who do not appreciate the import
of my hat.
To join my new YahooGroup, please send an email to
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Perhaps this might finally remove any further hat talk from my beloved
PSP.
# # #
This is a group for people who would like to address the myriad ways in
which a 42 year-old man's little boy hat can cause gender stereotyping,
bulletin board rage, and the decline of western civilization.
Group Email Addresses
Post message: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subscribe:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Unsubscribe:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
List owner: ParkSlopeParentsDiscussingBN' This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Give me my hat back, S!
BN
===============================
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:18:23 -0000
From: "T" <
Subject: Re: My hat
BN,
thanks! i was just sitting around with nothing to think about except
my yet vocalized and so invalidated rage over your son's hat. now i
know where i can get some real support!
T
==============================
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:22:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
Ok, here are my measly 2 cents...
I totally agree with A and SH.
I am all for all the good points raised, and having discussions about the
gender specific world we live in.
What I am so alarmed by is how quickly an attack is posted to the entire
list. Why not just write to the individual privately first? And then if it
is a topic that should be discussed -- not argued -- then post to the list
for discussion.
Just a suggestion. It has been a humorous, silly, and informative ride after
all.
-V
===============================
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: the PSP hat discussion (empathy)
Hi Y,
I haven't been following the discussion until now,
when I stumbled on some of the past day's postings.
Therefore, I'm not privy to the hurtful comments
posted, nor your original posting. However, I wanted
to let you know you're not alone in being
misunderstood; I fell on both sides of the issue a
number of months ago. I misread someone's comical
posting to the group, took it to be sarchastic and
took it too personally (when I shouldn't have.) I
responded to the group, THINKING I had chosen my words
well, but my tone was totally misread from my
intentions and received emails chastizing me for what
I said. I, too, posted another time to group,
acknowledging my error and took responsibility for my
part in the matter. As well, I apologized to the
person whose email I misread. It was not fun to get
those responses from readers who thought my post was
even worse. Subsequently, I am MUCH more careful
about what I respond to and how I respond. Still, I
find that there is so much room for misinterpretation
when it comes to email: black and white letters, same
size, "slant," etc.
All of a sudden, I feel my brain starting to shut
down: I have a 22 month old and a one month old. I'm
assuming last night's sleep deprivation is hitting me.
Anyway, I just wanted to send some kind words in the
midst of the negative emails you received. And like
you, I did find even my unpleasant experience
interesting and certainly learned something in the
process. And by the way, thank you for
posting/forwarding the info regarding alt. side of the
street parking notices! I hope you have a good rest
of the week.
best,
AN
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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:50:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: X's post about the boy's hat
HOLY COW -- IS THIS REALLY THE PROMINENT ISSUE FACING
THE EVERYDAY REALITY IN THIS COMMUNITY? WASN'T THIS
HAT POSTED AS "LOST"?
KM
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:02:12 -0000
Subject: Lost! Tiny blue hat on Carroll St. betw. 8th Ave. & PPW
I know this is a long shot, but we lost a hand-knitted infant's hat today (we think) on Carroll St. between 8th Ave. & PPW. It's light blue with a pom-pom on top, and has lots of sentimental value.
If you happen to have picked it up, please e-mail to E@...
Thanks,
E
===============================
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:02:12 -0000
Subject: Re: Lost! Tiny blue hat on Carroll St. betw. 8th Ave. & PPW
thank god you didn't say boy's hat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;-)
i hope you'll find it,
AD
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Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:02:12 -0000
Subject: Re: Lost! Tiny blue hat on Carroll St. betw. 8th Ave. & PPW
And yet, she did say "infant's" hat. Why? Is there something ineffably "infant-ish" about the hat? And if the hat is worn by, say, a 9-month old with an unusually small head, does that mean there's something wrong or evil about that 9-month old? Who are we to judge that a hat is "for" an "infant"? What gives us the right to even slap it with the label "hat," when for all we know it's a very soft, porous bowl, or a cozy for a tiny soccer ball? It's throwaway comments like "infant's hat" that hurt me to the quick.
(In all seriousness: hope the hat turns up.)
C
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...Oy!
